Q3-L275


Posts: 3147
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:11 pm
https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/a ... 016-0870-2

"In Europe there are at least two branches: one in Dutch and Germans, and another in Ashkenazi Jews. These branches split from a common root 3000+/-700 years ago (Table 2, Additional file 2: Table S1): before the Jewish migration into Europe in Roman times [46]. Further screening in both Europe and the Levant is needed to determine whether the ancestors of the Ashkenazi acquired this lineage from the Levantine homeland or from the European host populations".

From your tree it seems clear to me that Ashkenazim introgressed from Italy. Once again!

Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:57 pm
Gioiello
I was searching the FTDNA tree for European Q types to try and learn about the origins of the Q haplogroup. One such ydna group, Q-L804, is the brother of Q-M3 and is found mainly in Scandinavian and European testers at FTDNA so we assume that Q-L804 originated in the area their descendants are found in today. Q-L804 went through a huge bottleneck and has a very recent TMRCA. Q-M3 is the major Native American branch of Q. We know that by looking at the modern descendants of Q-M3 in America we can think that Q-M3 originated in America. Do you agree with that? I have thought about the Q haplogroup and I think that it is possible that Q was born in around Austria along with R. Perhaps it was in that region that they, Q and R, split.

We know that by looking at the area that modern R1b-L21 is found in huge numbers that L21 originated in that west European area and ancient dna has confirmed it for us. So we can assume the modern distribution of ydna subgroups can be a guide to the place of origin of the ancestors of those groups. It is what you have written about for years relating to the R1b diversity and density in Italy.

Posts: 3147
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:56 pm
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
I was searching the FTDNA tree for European Q types to try and learn about the origins of the Q haplogroup. One such ydna group, Q-L804, is the brother of Q-M3 and is found mainly in Scandinavian and European testers at FTDNA so we assume that Q-L804 originated in the area their descendants are found in today. Q-L804 went through a huge bottleneck and has a very recent TMRCA. Q-M3 is the major Native American branch of Q. We know that by looking at the modern descendants of Q-M3 in America we can think that Q-M3 originated in America. Do you agree with that? I have thought about the Q haplogroup and I think that it is possible that Q was born in around Austria along with R. Perhaps it was in that region that they, Q and R, split.

We know that by looking at the area that modern R1b-L21 is found in huge numbers that L21 originated in that west European area and ancient dna has confirmed it for us. So we can assume the modern distribution of ydna subgroups can be a guide to the place of origin of the ancestors of those groups. It is what you have written about for years relating to the R1b diversity and density in Italy.


If I look at the YFull tree I find only this sample from Italy
Q-Y28557 Y28557 * Y28565 * Y28564+10 SNPs formed 4900 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
• Q-Y28557*
o id:ERS3023306ITA [IT-BG]
which may be also old in Italy (4800years BP), but of course not enough for thinking that hg Q did come from the Alpine zone and not from Siberia/Asia. I said only in the past that some Q subclades were very old in Italy, but come from Asia, like the same hg. R, that I said old in Italy and possibly at the origin of R1b1 and subclades after a migration after the Younger Dryas. We know that it was in the Alpine zone at least 14000 years ago (and very likely some thousands of years before), but I didn’t say that it was born there and not in Siberia, where we have the oldest Mal’ta boy, even though of a dead end line.

Posts: 3147
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:19 am
Q-M930 CTS4564/M861 * CTS8129/M885 * CTS11969/M930+3 SNPs formed 15900 ybp, TMRCA 15200 ybp
• Q-M930*
• Q-L804 Y7335 * Y7323 * Y7336+133 SNPs formed 15200 ybp, TMRCA 3200 ybp

This line is above all European, but, even though it separated from the Native American line 15900 YBP, it is in Europe only from 3200 years ago, and it is only a presupposition that it was in Europe from then without some aDNA sample. It may have come between 15900 and 3200 years ago. The hypotheses may be many, also a periarctic presence.

Of course this sample may be a proof that some Q haplotype was just in Arctic Europe in the Palaeolithic:
Q-YP1669 Y14047 * YP1671 * YP1670+15 SNPs formed 16300 ybp, TMRCA 13300 ybp
• id:YF03186
• id:YF01677GBR [GB-ANT]

And also the sample from Bergamo doesn’t demonstrate anything, just being only one sample which could be also recent and come in Middle Ages with Longobards or others:
Q-Y28557 Y28557 * Y28565 * Y28564+10 SNPs formed 4900 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
• Q-Y28557*
o id:ERS3023306ITA [IT-BG]

Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:46 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
I was searching the FTDNA tree for European Q types to try and learn about the origins of the Q haplogroup. One such ydna group, Q-L804, is the brother of Q-M3 and is found mainly in Scandinavian and European testers at FTDNA so we assume that Q-L804 originated in the area their descendants are found in today. Q-L804 went through a huge bottleneck and has a very recent TMRCA. Q-M3 is the major Native American branch of Q. We know that by looking at the modern descendants of Q-M3 in America we can think that Q-M3 originated in America. Do you agree with that? I have thought about the Q haplogroup and I think that it is possible that Q was born in around Austria along with R. Perhaps it was in that region that they, Q and R, split.

We know that by looking at the area that modern R1b-L21 is found in huge numbers that L21 originated in that west European area and ancient dna has confirmed it for us. So we can assume the modern distribution of ydna subgroups can be a guide to the place of origin of the ancestors of those groups. It is what you have written about for years relating to the R1b diversity and density in Italy.


If I look at the YFull tree I find only this sample from Italy
Q-Y28557 Y28557 * Y28565 * Y28564+10 SNPs formed 4900 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
• Q-Y28557*
o id:ERS3023306ITA [IT-BG]
which may be also old in Italy (4800years BP), but of course not enough for thinking that hg Q did come from the Alpine zone and not from Siberia/Asia. I said only in the past that some Q subclades were very old in Italy, but come from Asia, like the same hg. R, that I said old in Italy and possibly at the origin of R1b1 and subclades after a migration after the Younger Dryas. We know that it was in the Alpine zone at least 14000 years ago (and very likely some thousands of years before), but I didn’t say that it was born there and not in Siberia, where we have the oldest Mal’ta boy, even though of a dead end line.




It is not beyond our imagination to assume that R and Q were born in the Alpine zone. In fact it is doable and I have looked the difference between the Austrian Q testers and the Native American Q testers. Their YSTR haplotypes are so diverse.

One expert thinks that the earliest R1a is found in the Ukraine and we have the earliest R1b in Italy. The boy found in the The Mal'ta–Buret' culture could have been a migrant and we can think this from the artefacts that were found.

Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:17 am
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6

Modern human origins: multiregional evolution of autosomes and East Asia origin of Y and mtDNA

Abstract
"The neutral theory has been used as a null model for interpreting nature and produced the Recent Out of Africa model of anatomically modern humans. Recent studies, however, have established that genetic diversities are mostly at maximum saturation levels maintained by selection, therefore challenging the explanatory power of the neutral theory and rendering the present molecular model of human origins untenable. Using improved methods and public data, we have revisited human evolution and found sharing of genetic variations among racial groups to be largely a result of parallel mutations rather than recent common ancestry and admixture as commonly assumed. We derived an age of 1.86-1.92 million years for the first split in modern human populations based on autosomal diversity data. We found evidence of modern Y and mtDNA originating in East Asia and dispersing via hybridization with archaic humans. Analyses of autosomes, Y and mtDNA all suggest that Denisovan and Neanderthal were archaic Africans with Eurasian admixtures and ancestors of South Asia Negritos and Aboriginal Australians. Verifying our model, we found more ancestry of Southern Chinese from Hunan in Africans relative to other East Asian groups examined. These results suggest multiregional evolution of autosomes and replacements of archaic Y and mtDNA by modern ones originating in East Asia, thereby leading to a coherent account of modern human origins."

Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:48 pm
Overlooked roles of DNA damage and maternal age in generating human germline mutations
Ziyue Gao, Priya Moorjani, Thomas A. Sasani, Brent S. Pedersen, Aaron R. Quinlan, Lynn B. Jorde, Guy Amster, and Molly Przeworski
PNAS May 7, 2019 116 (19) 9491-9500; first published April 24, 2019


https://www.pnas.org/content/116/19/9491

Significance
"More than three-fourths of human germline mutations are paternal in origin and their total number increases with the father’s age at conception. These observations are thought to support the textbook view that germline point mutations stem mostly from DNA replication errors. Analyzing large germline mutation datasets for humans, we find that this understanding cannot explain the observed patterns of new mutations. Instead, we show that the male mutation bias is not driven by spermatogenesis. We further find evidence that a substantial fraction of mutations are not replicative in origin and uncover a potential effect of a mother’s age on the number of mutations that happen early in the development of the embryo."

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