From “J1 Y-DNA Italy”

Possible time of origin: 4,000-34,000 years before present
Possible place of origin: Western Asia
Defining mutations: M267
Highest frequencies: Semitic populations generally, and also parts of the Caucasus (including Dagestan).

Moderator: napobo3


Posts: 3151
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:18 pm
I thank you, friends, because you permitted me to demonstrate what I am saying from so long. A thank above all to Alexandra Koumatou for her father’s data. It is clear that his subclade, called J-BY38105 from FTDNA, is the subclade J-ZS4416 for YFull, and it was formed 3400 ybp after a bottleneck of 68 SNPs, and it is from Balkans/Italy, and the subclades J-ZS10589 (Jewish and Arab) derived from Europe, being also older Europeans there (from Greece and Iberia). Of course that Arabs are recent is clear from YFull (TMRCA 375ybp), whereas the Jewish cluster seems 3400 years old only because one only sample is at YFull (YF11937). There is the possibility, to verify with other exams, that these Middle Easterner clusters derive from Sea Peoples or Philishtim, and we’ll know that when the hundreds of Philishtim bones are tested.
But after an exam of the STRs (which was my first tool when we hadn’t other) I’ll be able to say more.

I may add more now to what I wrote above.
1) I might read an interesting Exchange of posts between Alexandra and some components of the interesting blog in Serbian Poreklo http://www.poreklo.rs/forum , where not only I followed how Alexandra reached this terminal SNP BY38105 through http://www.yseq.net (I use those methods and perhaps I’d be able to let her spend less, but anyway her counselors were good), but also the interesting and necessary inquiry about the origin through history and paper trails of the testers, and it is important that the huge Serbian subclade derives from Vlachs, who were Latin speaking Balkans, and we know that Romania was peopled after the Roman conquest from people from Italy and the Rhine Valley, beyond the original peoples and many other who may have come in medieval times.
2) It is interesting also the suggestion of other samples from Italy from Boattini belonging to this halogroup I have to check, but they have to add to the Sardinian samples, which are brought from YFull at the level of the other subclade born 3400 years ago, but they are separated long before as it is clear from the tree from the J-ZS241FTDNA project, unfortunately cripted and that I might see only now. I’ll try to reconstruct the true mutations of these three Sardinian samples, being they tested at low coverage and with mixed results.
3) Of course what also these kind Serbian citizen scientists write about the supposed Jewish or Phoenician origin of this subclade (we may reflect how the propaganda of this people was effective) has no serious meaning. This J1 was in Sardinia Many thousands of years before that any Jewish, Phoenician or semite people might exist.

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