Ages of haplogroup D and sub-branches

Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:26 pm
Location: Paris region
H2a2a1 (rCRS)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:37 pm
By using experimental trees of haplogroups maintained by Ray Banks according to recent studies mainly interpreted by Greg Magooon. With an hypothesis which is to taking 1 mutation every 115 years plus an estimation of 35 unknown mutations at the end of the tree (4025 years), I obtained dates for the separations of haplogroup G , C , C1 and C3.:

Calculation for my sub-branch of haplogroup G :
G-M201_____743 mutations from now__________85445 BP Separation of the branch G from macrohaplogroup F at the beginning of the warmer phase MIS 5a ("Odderade" 86,000-74,000 BP when the branches I, J, K, LT and MNOPS diverged from FxG ) and phase MIS 4 the first Pleniglacial (74,000-59,000BP). The date corresponds to the birth of the Mt macrohaplogroups M and N.

Calculation for the longest branch of C1 :
C1-F3393_____659 mutations from now_____________75,785BP date of the separation with East Asiatic C3-M217.
C-M216_______950 mutations from now____________109,260BP date of the separation of the branch C with the branch F from the macrohaplogroup CF.

Calculation for the longest branch of C3 :
C3_M217_____716 mutations from now_____________82,340BP During the warm Odderade oscillation. date of the separation with Japonese,European C1a (old C1, C6) and Indian C1b (old C5) and with Oceanian C2-M38, Australian C4
C-M216______1007 mutations from now____________115,805BP date of the separation of the branch C with the branch F from the macrohaplogroup CF.

The date of the separation of the branch C1 with the branch C3 differs from (82,340-75,785)=6,545 years. This could be due to different reasons :
1) The aleatory occurence of the mutations.
2) A different coverage in the Y-chromosome exploration.
3) I put the 35 arbitrary unknown mutations (4025 years) for the end of the tree in the 2 cases while the coverage of recent mutations could be better in the C3 case than in the C1 case.

These datations could correspond to an 'Out of Africa' during the very warm and very wet Eemian (phase MIS 5e 130,000-120,000 BP) and an 'Out of Arabia' towards South and South-East Asia at the beginning of the warm and wet Odderade oscillation (MIS5a) about 86,000 BP, or an expansion from South Asia during Odderade 86,000-75,000BP (5a) of a lineage D which would have left Arabia/Near East to Indian Peninsula during the warm Brorup oscillation (5c) about 95,000 years ago. For instance, It left Arabia/Near East with a Mt lineage L3 which after 3 mutations (1 HVR and 2 coding, about 12-15,000 years later) was become the basal lineage of the haplogroup M, maybe or not, accompanied by a Y-lineage C.

I took the equivalent experimental tree of the haplogroup D maintained by Ray Banks, with the same hypotheses, I did a first calculation for the longest branch of Japonese D2. ... tal-d-tree

D2a1b2a1-Z1504_____________6 +35__________41__________4,715BP
D2-M64.1,M55______________126____________364__________41,860BP Separation of other branches D1,D3,D*
D-M74/Page30______________158____________522__________60,030BP Separation with haplogroup E from macrohaplogroup DE.

Probably the real separation of D and E could be dated about 100,000BP and the number of expected mutations of haplogroup D should be about 800/1200 mutations with the same coverage of other haplogroups better explorated.
We cannot know if the D2 separation in haplogroup D was before or after the first pleniglacial (MIS 4) 74-59,000BP. I bet for before and contemporary of the birth of the sub-branches of macrohaplogroup F and the Mts M and N. Also probably, the oldest mutations are the best known and the recent branches are a lot less known because rarer in the tested samples.

Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:26 pm
Location: Paris region
H2a2a1 (rCRS)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:14 pm
Messge from Ray Banks in his facebook

13 Feb 2014
The ISOGG D tree has been updated with a number of new subgroups. These encompass a significant proportion of the Japanese male population

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