From “Eurogenes blog” but not from Mr Eurogenes


Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:16 am
“In Italy, the long lasting pre-BB period when the ideology of the warrior dominated, is known through the famous Remedello (3.350 BC), Spilamberto (3.350 BC), Gaudo (3.300 BC) and Rinaldone cultures”.

Ahahahahahah
It’s what I am writing from ten years and more. From East? We’ll see from next to come aDNA from Italy. Certainly Villabruna, Les Iboussiéres, R-V88*, R-L389*, R-M73 (xM478), and all the rest were in Italy before 9000 years ago.

Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:39 am
R-PH155 PH4622 * BY14369 * BY14354+77 SNPs formed 20400 ybp, TMRCA 7300 ybpinfo
• R-PH155*
• R-M335 M335
o id:YF08551 [MARTINUCCI- Italy]
• R-PH200 BY14587 * PH2813 * BY14584+14 SNPs formed 7300 ybp, TMRCA 5700 ybpinfo
o R-PH200*
o R-Y32792 SK2055 * Y32798 * Y32801+35 SNPs formed 5700 ybp, TMRCA 300 ybpinfo
 id:YF09225BHR
 id:YF05838BHR
o R-Y81807 Y103310 * Y111232 * Y81807+2 SNPs
 id:ERS2374341
 id:YF09898TUR [TR-42]

Aram, discuss with Mr Eurogenes about autosome, you may say the most stupid nonsenses about, not about STRs and SNPs, you don’t understand anything about.
Hg R-PH155 separeted only 7300 years ago and the survived haplotypes are even more recent (5700 and only 300 ya), and R-M335 is more diffused in Italy and Central Europe.
Other hgs separated long before and they are in Italy and WesternEurope.
It is true that we have in India an haplotype which is PH155 negative, but that demonstrates only that these samples aren’t the ancestors of the European subclades whereas Italian samples are.

Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:23 am
@ Aram

When aDNA from Italy will be published (but I fear not so soon: the samples are owned from the Jewish-Leftist & Gay mafia), you'll see where these samples were in the origins. I have demonstrated that from more than ten years.

Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:27 am
Of course it is absurd that an Italian from an Arbereshe hamlet of Calabria, surnamed Damis, and resulted R-M335, made FTDNA put the Albanian flag, as it isn't said that his Y did come from Albania. He is very close to Martinucci and R-M335 is huge in Central and Northern Europe. One sample in Anatolia from the paper of Cinnioglu 2004.

Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:49 pm
@ Dragos

@ Aram

“Do You know that of the oldest case of R1b PH155 ”

Did you mean the most divergent ?
Funnily enough it’s in a man of Italian background


Unfortunately that isn’t true. If you alluded to YF08851 (R-PH155-M335), he is of Italian ancestry (and others I put on eng-molgen in these last ten years, but he, the other Italian who thinks, probably wrongly, to be an Arbereshe, and the two Germans tested through a BigY (but Central an Northern Europe have many other samples (I posted them on molgen etc.)) have a very recent common ancestor whom you may see on the Big Y Block tree. But I am testing a Greek who could be a very old R-M343 or even R-PH155. We’ll see.

Posts: 3268
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:43 pm
From Eurogenes,
"Spanish geneticists seem to agree on an origin of R1b-M269 in Eastern Europe (Balkans, Bulgaria, even the steppes), but it is also obvious that it is a Neolithic migration to the West, and therefore the possibility of an origin of L51 in Central Europe or even Western Europe is certain."

It was not possible for a Neolithic expansion of L51 and we can see that in the L51 tree. The descendants of L51 expanded in the western European BA in the form of L21,U152 and DF27. I don't agree with an eastern European origin for M269. Villabruna was not found in eastern Europe and he lived at the time of the birth of the M269 branch. And I would not listen to any nonsense about Mal'ta boy's clan being the origin of western R1b as I have already posted a hundred times that no R1 was found the among the NA when they crossed the Bering Strait 13,000 ybp. Mal'ta boy's R1 clan belongs to an extinct line. Scientists are never going to find the place where M269 resided during the massive bottleneck.

Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:02 pm
@ Diego

“R1b M269 was paralyzed for thousands of years”.

It means only that the expansion was recent (around Italy and the Balkans) and doesn’t say anything about its origin, its bottleneck, thus other haplotypes may give the needed information about the place of origin, and they are all in Western and Central Europe (of course I think that the place of origin was around the Southern part of the Alps) and we have infinite hints about that and I am speaking of them from more than ten years. I wrote perhaps 15000 letters about that. We need proofs and I think that they are in Italian aDNA next to come. Of course Iberia had R1b only from the migration from Italy beginning from 7500 years ago, the migration Zilhao spoke about firstly.

Posts: 3268
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:12 pm
Gioiello wrote:@ Diego

“R1b M269 was paralyzed for thousands of years”.

It means only that the expansion was recent (around Italy and the Balkans) and doesn’t say anything about its origin, its bottleneck, thus other haplotypes may give the needed information about the place of origin, and they are all in Western and Central Europe (of course I think that the place of origin was around the Southern part of the Alps) and we have infinite hints about that and I am speaking of them from more than ten years. I wrote perhaps 15000 letters about that. We need proofs and I think that they are in Italian aDNA next to come. Of course Iberia had R1b only from the migration from Italy beginning from 7500 years ago, the migration Zilhao spoke about firstly.


https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M269/
"CTS12612/PF6530/FGC61 * PF6436 * PF6419/CTS623/FGC37+99 SNPs formed 13300 ybp, TMRCA 6400 ybp"

Gio
M269 was hunter-gatherer bottlenecked clan until the birth of L23. The branches that led to P312, U106 and S1200 must have lived in the Neolithic era but was also a very small single line of descent clan and that is the reason that we do not see them in ancient burials until the BA when the clan expanded in western Europe. There is no evidence yet that the P312 clan expanded from any part of the Steppe. That suggests only one option, P312 was born in western Europe no matter how much Steppe dna shows up in their genome. Those that suggest that due to the fact that a small number of Z2103 descendants probably from one single branch showed up in the Steppe that the brother branch L51 was also born there. There is absolutely no proof that Z2103 originated in the Steppe in the first instance and the brother branches descendants do not always have to be born beside each other. U106 has not shown up in any Bell Beaker sites to date.

Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:08 am
@ Aram
“I was meaning oldest ancient DNA. PH155+.
The oldest PH155 in Europe is found from a Gepid who was a mixture of Hun and locals. Other cases of PH155 was found in Tian Shan Huns.

What a modern Italian do not change much. Because You need to have it in ancient Italy, older than those Huns.

And I don't believe that R1 is from Siberia.

Diego
Origins of PH155 is very very important”.”

I don’t think that R-PH155, and also R-PH155-M335, are surely from Europe. These are subclades too recent and may have come in Middle Ages with people from East as other hg R surely come with Turks or others (they are the descendants of some R-Z2103 subclade of Yamnaya and migrated to Central Asia and entered the Turkish pool, but that doesn’t mean that R-L23 was born in Asia and neither in Yamnaya). Certainly Western European R-M73*, separated from Easterrn European and Asian R-M73-M478 about 9000 years ago, didn’t come to Western Europe from these Eastern haplotypes, even though I said that we cannot exclude an old origin from the R1b from Baltic (but they were anyway the Western European hunter-gatherers descendants after the Younger Dryas).
About the other haplotypes go and read my thousands of letters, also on this blog [Eurogenes] before my banishment.

Posts: 3268
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:18 am
Gioiello wrote:@ Aram
“I was meaning oldest ancient DNA. PH155+.
The oldest PH155 in Europe is found from a Gepid who was a mixture of Hun and locals. Other cases of PH155 was found in Tian Shan Huns.

What a modern Italian do not change much. Because You need to have it in ancient Italy, older than those Huns.

And I don't believe that R1 is from Siberia.

Diego
Origins of PH155 is very very important”.”

I don’t think that R-PH155, and also R-PH155-M335, are surely from Europe. These are subclades too recent and may have come in Middle Ages with people from East as other hg R surely come with Turks or others (they are the descendants of some R-Z2103 subclade of Yamnaya and migrated to Central Asia and entered the Turkish pool, but that doesn’t mean that R-L23 was born in Asia and neither in Yamnaya). Certainly Western European R-M73*, separated from Easterrn European and Asian R-M73-M478 about 9000 years ago, didn’t come to Western Europe from these Eastern haplotypes, even though I said that we cannot exclude an old origin from the R1b from Baltic (but they were anyway the Western European hunter-gatherers descendants after the Younger Dryas).
About the other haplotypes go and read my thousands of letters, also on this blog [Eurogenes] before my banishment.


Here are the results from the FTDNA PH155 tree. Nine testers don't know where there ancestors came from. What is wrong with them? A Family Finder test will point them in the right direction because it is good for 10 generations. It will give them a link to the gene pool their ancestors came from.

Country Report: Y-DNA Haplogroup R-PH155
Paternal Origin*
Branch Participants
R-PH155
Downstream Participants
R-PH155 and Downstream (Excluding other Letters)
All Downstream Participants
R-PH155 and Downstream (Including other Letters)
Distribution
Germany
0
2
2
20.00%
Turkey
0
2
2
20.00%
Bahrain
0
2
2
20.00%
India
1
1
1
10.00%
United States
1
1
1
10.00%
Albania
0
1
1
10.00%
Italy
0
1
1
10.00%
Unknown Origin
5
9
9
**
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